What are your opinions on this?
Were the sentences handed down afterwards *all* against the 'foreigners' and not the drunk mob?
Is it true people were going around forcing others to kiss the flag or be beaten during and after this shocking event?
A friend of mine said that Big Day Out (or something) had these thugs walking around with flags beating people up.
Scary.
Please staighten me out if I'm wrong.
Were the sentences handed down afterwards *all* against the 'foreigners' and not the drunk mob?
Is it true people were going around forcing others to kiss the flag or be beaten during and after this shocking event?
A friend of mine said that Big Day Out (or something) had these thugs walking around with flags beating people up.
Scary.
Please staighten me out if I'm wrong.
posted by:
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 2, 2008 - 2:09 AMyes rampant nationalism. Yes drunken thugs. I don't know what sentences were handed down or what weren't. But im sure the irony of the situation would have passed them all by.. that the original people of this country were not white.
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 2, 2008 - 6:25 PM>Were the sentences handed down afterwards *all* against the 'foreigners' and not the drunk mob?
Nope there were given to people from either side who were violent.
>Is it true people were going around forcing others to kiss the flag or be beaten during and after this shocking event?
There was a small group of idiots who started the whole thing and they were also the ones doing this sort of thing "people" were not going around doing that, just that one group. Most people who live in the area thought it was disgusting.
>A friend of mine said that Big Day Out (or something) had these thugs walking around with flags beating people up.
Bigday out is a big music festival kind of like warped tour in the states, Yes it does atract the usual drunken yobs but no more so than any other big event with alcohol. I'm pretty sure if any one was doing any beatting up they would have been thrown out pretty quickly considering the amount of security about.
as far as my opinion i would say that this was a horrible incedent caused by a very small group of small minded people and most australians from what i have seen are defenatly not Rampant Nationalests .
Here are some local news articals if you want to find out what actually happend.
www.abc.net.au/news/newsi...1529329.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005...ulla_riots
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 12:54 AM<<as far as my opinion i would say that this was a horrible incident caused by a very small group of small minded people and most australians from what i have seen are defenatly not Rampant Nationalests .>>
I agree. If that rabble at Cronulla represent Australian Pride - they can stick it where the sun done shine. Shameful incident of hate and stupidity where both sides seemed to play a part - but that in no way excuses flag wearing (or nonflag wearing) drunken hoons beating up on others.
I find the whole thing repulsive - and saw this post but the incident was so shameful, depressing and enraging that I could not post. - thanks Blueberry for taking the time to do so.
I am proud of the Aussie flag - but if it represents drunken violent hoons - lets burn the thing. Fortunately, I don't believe that is the case. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 2:44 AMWhat I find is hilarious is that 'Americans', yes 'Americans' lay down judgment on Australia as being backwards because of one brawl on a Beach. {Yeah America can hold it's head high and cast judgments on other nations as racist - sheeesh!}
Honestly, the media created the mythos around the event, including the radio jocks who fanned the flames.
Australia is a big place, contrary to what the ELITES believe, the country doesn't revolve around New South Wales.
Honestly I wish the intellectuals and Big Media Elite would spend some time living outside of Sydney and Melbourne sometimes.
There are parts of Australia were mixed cultures live quite peaceful together, including Indigenous folks. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Fri, July 4, 2008 - 10:57 AMWanna hear an example of modern-day racism in the U.S.A.? In the 2004 elections, Repuglican thugs went to polling places in Ohio, and 'challenged' would-be African-American voters, using concern about voter fraud as a pretext. And they did so with the blessings of our Supreme Court!
That reminds me of a joke that's been making the rounds in Europe:
Be nice to Americans, or they'll bring democracy to YOUR country. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 6:56 PM<<Honestly, the media created the mythos around the event, including the radio jocks who fanned the flames. >>
Totally agree cupofzen !
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 1:38 PMNo one here was stereotyping or making jokes about Australians...or Australia as being
backwards, small or racist.
You seem more than a little bit defensive Larry.
As if both America and Australia can't be backwards, racist and xenophobic.
And 'cupofzen'...
(what an odd name for someone so excitable!)
...your post seems to imply that nationalism can't exist anywhere in Australia without the whole country being viewed as goose stepping nazis... and I've always heard that an unwillingness to bend or accept fault with your own country is the hallmark of fascism everywhere.
'America, love it or leave it!' Etc.
Also,
And perhaps you knew this already, but most Americans are FAR too hopelessly myopic to even follow *their own* political and cultural news adaquately...they certainly don't go about wringing their hands and 'passing judgement' on Australia.
Sorry to deflate the role you thought your country played in every American's, yes 'Americans' dinner conversation!
:D
But thanks, Larry and cupofzen, you've answered a few of my questions about pockets of rabid nationalism! What I'm hearing is this: Ben, dearest friend, If you visit, please stay near New South Wales where you will not be exposed to knee jerk reactions and bad jokes about Americans.
To everyone else let me say, Be Well! Thank You! and Good Day!
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 1:39 PMNo one here was stereotyping or making jokes about Australia or Australians being
backwards, small or racist.
Larry, you seem more than a little bit defensive.
As if both America and Australia can't be backwards, racist and xenophobic.
And 'cupofzen'...
(what an odd name for someone so excitable!)
...your post seems to imply that nationalism can't exist anywhere in Australia without the whole country being viewed as goose stepping nazis... and I've always heard that an unwillingness to bend or accept fault with your own country is the hallmark of fascism everywhere.
'America, love it or leave it!' Etc.
Also,
And perhaps you knew this already, but most Americans are FAR too hopelessly myopic to even follow *their own* political and cultural news adaquately...they certainly don't go about wringing their hands and 'passing judgement' on Australia.
Sorry to deflate the role you thought your country played in every American's, yes 'Americans' dinner conversation!
:D
But thanks, Larry and cupofzen, you've answered a few of my questions about pockets of rabid nationalism! What I'm hearing is this: Ben, dearest friend, If you visit, please stay near New South Wales where you will not be exposed to knee jerk reactions and bad jokes about Americans.
To everyone else let me say, Be Well! Thank You! and Good Day! -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 1:40 PMWhoops, guess I got excited!
Sorry. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 10:47 PMTo be fair Ben your post did sound very accusatory and seemed like you were looking for an argument. I had to bite my tongue in my reply other wise it would have sounded somewhat like Larry’s. In future if you would like to start a discussion it would be wise to do a little research first rather than make some untrue remarks about some hear say then get annoyed when people take offence.
>Sorry to deflate the role you thought your country played in every American's, yes 'Americans' dinner conversation!
He didn’t mention “every American’s” any where in that post.
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 10:54 PMCupofzen wrote:
"What I find is hilarious is that 'Americans', yes 'Americans' lay down judgment on Australia as being backwards because of one brawl on a Beach. {Yeah America can hold it's head high and cast judgments on other nations as racist - sheeesh!}"
This may be slight exaggeration. Most of my fellow Merkins don't know very much--or care very much--about the outside world, and have never even heard of the Cronulla Beach Riots. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 11:46 PM>Most of my fellow Merkins don't know very much--or care very much--about the outside world, and have never even heard of the Cronulla Beach Riots.
In fact, they kind of sound like a snack treat! "Cronulla Beach Riots! Get them now at your local 7-11! Buy a 64 oz Big Gulp!™ and get a free Cronulla Beach Riot!™ for only 99¢!" -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 6:48 AMFolks fighting among themselves? Unless it involves police brutality, what is the big deal? What was the reaction of the folks present to the issue, which by the way I have not heard of either. Did anyone come to the assistance of those being brutalized by thugs? What caused the thugs to become focused on the attacked group? Look at what you would have done if there, not what others did.
Why, oh why do folks insist on letting the government, any government, give them group mentality of a national mindset anyway? How can anyone enjoy being so easily controlled? What is great about it? "I am an Aussie" I am an American" "I am a Brit" Whatever nationality you get tagged with, why do you have to own it? Own who you are, be who YOU are, think, feel, and act on your own values, not those imposed upon you. Allow others to do the same. See them, not the tags society tries to impose on them. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 10:42 AMSuzi,
good question!
Personally, I think people *enjoy* belonging to a group
(or tribe)
because at our core we're pack animals and like
belonging to something bigger than ourselves.
Nothing wrong with that.
As such they feel the need to define their group and defend it from outsiders.
I'll PM you a link you may enjoy.
Anyway, I don't believe it's coming down from the government.
Or, at least, not solely from the government!
But, I admit that I have a hard time fathoming what goes on in those
people's heads and I could be wrong about the whole thing.
Larry said:
"This may be slight exaggeration. Most of my fellow Merkins don't know very much--or care very much--about the outside world, and have never even heard of the Cronulla Beach Riots. "
Larry, please, try and keep up.
This was *already covered*, almost verbatim, by me.
;)
Bluberry said:
" In future if you would like to start a discussion it would be wise to do a little research first rather than make some untrue remarks about some hear say then get annoyed when people take offence. "
(Sigh)
First step: Breathe...
Second step: type...
Third step: edit...
Fourth:.... post!
Dearest Bluberry, I did do 'a little' research before posting this thread.
Think about it, how would an American who's never visited the Southern Hemisphere (and has plenty of other things closer to home to think about) *even know* about a three year old 'beach riot' in Australia?
Also, that wikipedia link you posted
was the *first place* I went AND it's where I got
the idea to question whether most or all of the people fined or jailed were Lebanese.
I also looked here:
Sydney Morning Herald
www.smh.com.au/news/natio...936223.html
and here...
Wikinews article:
en.wikinews.org/wiki/Viole...ople_gather
As well as viewing and reading *many* other articles and videos I won't bother you all with.
In addition to the above, I've had a very long and very well thought out cultural exchange of sorts over the course of a few weeks with someone who obviously puts a *lot* more thought into what he posts than you do.
What I was responding to was Larry and Cupofzen
avoiding the issue, pointing the finger at other countries,
and telling jingoistic jokes.... as opposed to just
saying, "Yep, Cronulla was f'd up...I guess we've got our share just like everybody else!"
If anyone felt I was being condescending, I'm sorry.
Feel free to save us all a bunch of time and call me on it up front ...as I did
when I said Larry sounded defensive.
it's okay to argue, angrily even, but let's stick to the point, shall we?
...so that at the end of the day, when things cool down, each side may (at least)
have learned something new about how other people see them.
If your main complaint about me is that I don't know the answer to my own question (which remember was 'how do you all feel about this event') then I'm not sure there's much I can do about that.
BTW, I'll admit that I'm wrong about all sorts of things!
ALL the time! Every single day!
That's why I'm here asking and trying to learn.
So, feel free to ban or boot me from here Moderator if you think this thread
has, in some way, harmed this tribe.
Best wishes,
Ben -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 5:45 PMIf you really did read those articles before you posted then why did you ask questions which were quite simply and plainly answered in them? Sure you asked for discussion about the events but you also made some vague statements that were totally incorrect, doesn’t sound like somebody who had done research to me.
First step: Stop being a patronising wanker
Second step: Repeat -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 8:20 PMCharming.
Now... what exactly are you asking me?
"If you really did read those articles before you posted then why did you ask questions which were quite simply and plainly answered in them?"
Because articles aren't always correct.
"Sure you asked for discussion about the events but you also made some vague statements that were totally incorrect, doesn’t sound like somebody who had done research to me. "
Um, I only made one statement and it was neither vague nor 'totally incorrect'.
Here it is... and it's the stone truth:
"A friend of mine said that Big Day Out (or something) had these thugs walking around with flags beating people up. "
followed by this:
"Scary!"
and this:
"Please staighten me out if I'm wrong."
So, aside from that, I'm not really sure what you're whining about.
I did see many videos and read many articles on the riots before posting here.
Can I without a doubt prove that to you? Probably not.
Does it matter enough for me to try? Nope.
Am i supposed to know a bunch of details about an event before I'm allowed to ask people
what they think about it?
Have you considered that this is exactly what I was trying to do by asking questions here?
I.E. Trying to educate myself further about things?
And btw, who are you to tell me where I can acquire information and what questions I can ask and when?
So... recapping, thus far, mainly what I've got about the riots is that it's unlikely that anyone was beat up afterwards for not kissing the flag at The Big Day Out.
...and as far as 'Rampant Nationalism' goes I've found out that wading into an Autralian Nationalsm debate with Australians isn't much fun..or informative.
:(
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 8:45 PMTake heart - I think it is totally reasonable to ask questions - and what's more - even if you knew a fair bit about this - still a good thing to add to what the media has presented by actually asking some Aussies what they made of it..
<<Australian Nationalism debate with Australians isn't much fun..or informative.>>
You know - I think that is a given. You will note that few people talk about Oz here Nationalistically (I talk of Australia with pride - but not sure that's "Nationalism" - in many ways were are anti-nationalism). . We might be a bit defensive - but I would say that is because we look at Nationalism in other countries with a bit of a shudder or something. Looking at this through Cronulla is probably not the best way - because the whole thing was horrible. Any Aussie who thought the thugs did the right thing just because they were wearing a flag needs their head read - but there presence of the flag is far secondary to the simple fact that violent crime was committed against people. However the flag represents our country - so used in this way in violence and hate - it becomes a sense of personal shame to me. The whole thing was ugly.. and what made it even worse was the way that some media outlets portrayed it as some sort of simmering racism throughout Australia and Cronulla as just a flashpoint of a wider problem. Maybe it was - but I would think not - and what's more - talking of it in those terms is simply divisive.
If there is a Nationalistic Pride in Australia - I would want a component of that being the acceptance of difference. "Acceptance" being something more embracing that simply "tolerance". In that - I see the incident in Cronulla as the antithesis of what I want my country to be.
And the word "Nationalism" is a bit of a dirty word to me because it is often used to establish yourself and your country as better than others. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 9:45 PMwow.
That's...something I've never really experienced.
Hmmm...I'm still chewing on it.
Thank you for explaining that to me. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 5:56 AMTHE strongest is never strong enough to be always the master, unless he transforms strength into right, and obedience into duty. Hence the right of the strongest, which, though to all seeming meant ironically, is really laid down as a fundamental principle. But are we never to have an explanation of this phrase? Force is a physical power, and I fail to see what moral effect it can have. To yield to force is an act of necessity, not of will — at the most, an act of prudence. In what sense can it be a duty?
Suppose for a moment that this so-called "right" exists. I maintain that the sole result is a mass of inexplicable nonsense. For, if force creates right, the effect changes with the cause: every force that is greater than the first succeeds to its right. As soon as it is possible to disobey with impunity, disobedience is legitimate; and, the strongest being always in the right, the only thing that matters is to act so as to become the strongest. But what kind of right is that which perishes when force fails? If we must obey perforce, there is no need to obey because we ought; and if we are not forced to obey, we are under no obligation to do so. Clearly, the word "right" adds nothing to force: in this connection, it means absolutely nothing.
Rousseau -
The Cronulla Beach Bust up was 2 packs of drunken wankers kicking off...
This issue seems to go on and on and on.. Most Western societies that "enjoy" consumption of alcohol also seem to suffer from drunken fuckwits that beat each other and innocents up..
If you ask me if Australia has Nationalist - Yes we do... SO does US and pretty much every country in the world. A group of people that see it as their inalienable right to live somewhere and do what ever they feel they want regardless of the people around them just because they are more "from that country" than another.
So Ben, what exactly are you trying to get at ? is there a point o this thread or is it a case of pick at comments without committing yourself any idea. I think most of us have stated our opinions....Let's here yours.....Opinion that is...Not judgement on my comment.. cause to be honest I really don't care what your analysis of my comment is..I want to hear your opinion........
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 7:08 AMI'll be honest in saying I haven't read through everyone's post here on this thread, just skimmed to get the gist.
It seems this is the same kind of tension we've seen on this thread before: Australian's vs American's in some form or another.
I'll just say this:
America is a very Nationalistic society. Australia is also a nationalistic society. There is
nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from. It only becomes an issue when it's used to exert
a perceived notion of superiority over someone else. And certainly, neither of our countries is exempt from that.
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 7:21 AMAustralia and United States ( I won't say America because my neighbors in Central and South America and Canada object to being lumped in to the US mindset) are more alike than most folks want to admit. I think that may be why you all argue so much about the perceived differences. The European culture on both continents puts both nations closer to Europe than either the Australian Aboriginal or Native American cultures. The drinking, riots, and egos involved with being nationalistic reflect on a group mentality mindset. Where I come from has nothing to do with what I as an individual have done. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 4:18 PMI disagree Suzi.
I think we are constantly in a relationship with our surroundings and that we are affected by what our government does and what our national culture and history are.
Much, *much* less so than our own personal history, personal space/rituals and even local government...so I can kinda see where you're coming from... I think.
And that is the interesting conversation to me and that is why i will take it up in a new thread!
As for what my opinion of the Cronulla Riots and Rampant Nationalsm, I really have nothing new to say other than what I expressed in my OP.
"Scary!"
I will say that after reading Bloke Triva Bandit's candid post it got me to thinking about America and how the riots over here are all populated with disenfranchised blacks and mexicans and such.
Who certainly aren't waving any American flags about.
And this got me to thinking about racism and why I don't take *those* riots personally...and don't really feel much shame, just fear. Which *then* made me feel kind of ashamed for not giving a sh*t what these people were experiencing.
Then again the whole looting and burning of small buisnesses is a pretty dispicable practice so maybe there is nothing to be sad about except that people are just generally ignorant beasts.
So I don't know.
Basically, what I've discovered (again) is that Australia is something I just don't understand.
I mean I don't claim to 'understand' America but I *really* don't understand Australia.
I honestly don't have any basis of comparison when it comes to the Cronulla Riots and possibly most other aspects of daily life in 'Oz'.
I do think that more Australians than Americans would stand up for their country in an internet forum, despite the Anti-Nationalist sentiment so often expressed by Aussies. But this is solely based on the 40-50 Australians I've spoken with online and as such has no real bearing on reality what-so-ever.
I'd love to see some good studies if anyone has any.
Not to pit America vs Australia culture any more than what already happens.
But as Suzi pointed out: perhaps that's why we are always inspecting and comparing...because we are enough alike to warrant comparisons.
At least we are very similar in comparison to Asia or South America.
Bah!
It's my daughters B-Day!
I'll write more tomorrow.
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 11:59 PMHappy B-Day for your daughter, hope you have a good one..
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 4:25 PM<And the word "Nationalism" is a bit of a dirty word to me because it is often used to establish yourself and your country as better than others.>
bravo blokeski - another point well made.
it's a bit tense in here innit?? -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 9:29 PMShould one have used 'Racism' rather than 'Nationalism'? -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 11:30 PM<<Should one have used 'Racism' rather than 'Nationalism'? >>
Maybe but the word that really needs changing is Rampant and in my opinion is what gave the first post a condesending and judgmental tone.
ram·pant (rmpnt)
adj.
1. Extending unchecked; unrestrained: a rampant growth of weeds in the neglected yard.
2. Occurring without restraint and frequently, widely, or menacingly; rife: a rampant epidemic; rampant corruption in city government.
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 11:43 PM> ram·pant (rmpnt)
Sometimes I wonder why Queensland is called Queensland,
How it moulded individuals like Pauline,
Where Asians equate to takeaway cuisine,
And aborigines are less than welcome in many places,
I hesitate to mention Townsville, Palm Island,
I don't stare at the ladies in Lakemba, nor do I surf at Maroubra.
Rampant, oh yea in many places... unfortunately :(
Now I wait to be smacked around the head.... -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 12:04 AMYeah it exist but id def isn't rampant -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 12:05 AMYeah it exists and it sucks but it isn't rampant meaning uncontrolled and wide spread. This would mean that the majority of people think this way. Which i know is not true.
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 9:40 PMBetter tense than terse :) And thanks Gab. And I also thought the other posts were interesting – loved Reds Rousseau quote :)
I the most single component of human relations is dialogue. Sex aside., our relationships are the sum of the conversations we have with others – so being able to talk about the hard things in life is really important. Critical.
I think it is also totally valid to ask questions that you don’t have answers for or understand (perhaps there are the best kind!) in order to learn.
I think if you are threatened by a question – that tells you a whole lot more about yourself than the person asking it. And I must also say – I don’t always wade in on some of the potentially contentious threads here. Not liking confrontation is a factor – sometimes I just want to see how they pan out – other times – I am simply confused or conflicted on it at the time I am reading.
And a last thought for this post – if you assume an “Australian vrs American” conflict – you are much more likely to make that assumption a reality rather than a simple conversation and exchange of ideas occurring. . -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 9:42 PM<<Should one have used 'Racism' rather than 'Nationalism'? >>
Maybe - often they can go hand in hand - but not always.. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 3:02 AMBluberry,
I don't think the word 'rampant' is the problem.
After all that *was* an essential part of my question:
Does your country have -a majority- of xenophobic nationalists?
But remember, it's just a question...it won't hurt you.
Even if the answer is yes... it doesn't mean *you* are a part of the xenophobic nationalist majority, right? And even if you are (yikes!)...you can face that aspect of yourself and correct it... or defend your position! It's not the end of the world.
Either way...what do you care what one condescending, patronizing wanker posts on the internet?
:)
languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/l...ls.png
Bloke,
When I said America 'versus' Australia I meant comparing the two *cultures* and lifestyles and not necessarily American *people* versus Australian people.
I think a friendly comparison of abstract cultures and nations can happen without any 'bloodshed' and can be educational.
Americans verbally brawling Australians is not something I try to find myself a part of...especially in an Australian Tribe with only a handful of Americans around as backup! (You'll notice I didn't get much help from 'em on this f***in' thread!)
But seriously one day I'll get around to starting a National Identity Thread because the whole myth and projected image of different national cultures is very interesting to me.
I'm just really tired right now.
BTW,
I just found out that Nationalism has a very interesting and varied definition.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati...ationalism
(Who knew a non-xenophobic,'liberal' nationalism existed?) -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 5:07 AMThanks for the wiki article - interesting ! -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 12:11 PMYou're welcome!
I could spend DAYS on wikipedia. -
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Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 9:22 PM<<I could spend DAYS on wikipedia.>>
I have ;)
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Unsu...
Re: Cronulla Beach Riots and Rampant Nationalism?
Fri, July 11, 2008 - 2:08 AM
